This is topic Does Dr Berger Offer a Guarantee? in forum After Tubal Reversal at Tubal Reversal Message Board.
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Posted by Sunshine Lady (Member # 10744) on March 09, 2007 07:56 PM: I have been searching for the best surgeon and best price for this procedure and there is a doctor close by that guarantee's that you will have at least 1 open tube or he will refund you some money. I know Dr. Berger offers to do another TR at reduced fee if you choose but does he offer a money back guarantee?
Posted by Eric's Girl (Member # 10652) on March 09, 2007 08:35 PM: I am fairly new to this... I am sure the staff and many long-time members will do it better than I... BUT... there are NO guarantees in life. Many don't walk out of the first surgery with enough to do a second... so that kind of guarantee seems null and void from the get-go. How much is he charging originally? Is he charging so much that he can afford to give back money with no consequence to his bottom line? Think about it... all stores have sales... the prices are jacked so high to begin with...they still make a profit selling it at 50%off! Dr. Berger's cost seems as low as one could expect it when you consider EVERYTHING that goes into his services. Is this the only thing this doctor does? Is he a one-service SPECIALIST like Dr. B? How many surgeries has he done? What are his success rates? What are his pregnancy rates? You better make sure you are comparing apples to apples. We are women... who want desperately to have more children... emotionally we are a wreck from that stand point. Financially all our options are stressing, to say the least. Emotions and finances pull us in two different directions usually. I personally think when you are trying to pick a doctor, the financial part of it needs to be the last variable. Find one with a track record second to none... I am positive that will land you in Dr. B's surgical center. And if the runner up is the local guy and you feel his stats are such that you are willing to accept them as your odds for success... then let the money back guarantee factor in. If I come off at all harsh, that is not my intent. Money back guarantees scream to me that he is trying to "attract" clients to boost his numbers. Caveat emptor ("Let the buyer beware"). Best of luck to you in your journey... we hope to hear it takes you to Dr. Berger! Chrissy
Posted by jehningsmom (Member # 10769) on March 09, 2007 08:57 PM: I think for a new girl Chrissy did quite well explaining!!! Good job Chrissy...and she is right. In all the research I did Dr. Berger was IT!! I looked at all the locals and even with a money back guarantee they did not have the credentials to stand behind not to mention that they were all a six week recovery unlike Dr. B's just about 5 day recovery. Everything factors in. With Dr. Berger the hotel is discounted for his patients, the hotel gives free shuttle to wherever you want to go while you are there and the staff is stupendous...and they don't stop at surgery!! They don't just say good bye, nice to meet you, have a great life....they are truly concerned the rest of your life. You won't find that anywhere else for any amount of money!! Hope this helps... Louise
Posted by Sunshine Lady (Member # 10744) on March 09, 2007 09:17 PM: Chrissy You don't come off as harsh at all but don't be offended when I correct you and say there is a guarantee and I have found a doctor that offers one. I simply asked if Dr Berger offers one. The doctor I am speaking of doesn't offer a repeat surgery like Dr Berger does for a discount.
Posted by Donna C (Member # 1001) on March 09, 2007 09:18 PM: Hi Sunshine Like these ladies have stated "There are NO guarantees in life!" Dr. Berger does offer a laparscopy package for a small price. This procedure is performed before he attempts to do your Tubal Reversal. If he isn't able to do your Tubal Reversal a portion of your money will be refunded to you. Dr. Berger also offers a discount if you should need a second Tubal Reversal. I'm not sure how much money they refund of charge for these procedures. I had my surgery in Aug. 2002 and the prices have changed over the years. I'm sure if you email a nurse or Dr. Berger they can give you even more info. Hope this helps. Good luck on your upcoming surgery Donna
Posted by ChucksGirl (Member # 8875) on March 09, 2007 09:19 PM: Me and my dh read about the guarantee offered by a few doctors and the list of requirements to make you eligible for the guarantee were staggering -- and some even costly. Like the tests that the doctor must perform himself to see if you are even eligible for the money back offer. Aside from the the things that Chrissy and Jehning's Mom said, I was most impressed by the fact that Dr. Berger and his staff are available day and night, weekends, and holidays. Personally I have called both Julia and Jennifer at least half dozen times at night and they always answer and respond to my questions. When I e-mail Dr. Berger on the weekend, he always responds. I know that no one can guarantee me a baby or that my tubes will remain open - no one can guarantee that - but they definitely are available 24 / 7. I have talked with many women who thought they had found doctors with better "deals" and in every case it turned out that it was too good to be true and more money was owed or there were stipulations that were not given up front, but after the fact. I think we all expect surgery to cost money and we all save to be able to pay the fee, but me and my dh also want to know that we are getting the facts and the total cost up front without surprises. I hope that all is well with this other doctor and your situation should you choose to go there...but I am always skeptical of "guarantees". CG
Posted by Sunshine Lady (Member # 10744) on March 09, 2007 09:28 PM: Have any of you ladies gotten pregnant yet? What was the outcome? I'm also concerned with percent of live births versus pregnancies since it seems to be a lot of ectopic/miscarriages here.Any info is MUCH appreciated
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 09, 2007 09:37 PM: His refund is only of value in that it goes to either a second surgery to open a blocked tube or helps buffer the next steps expenses of IVF or adoption or whatever one would choose. He only guarantees ONE open tube... so if only one is blocked... but you don't ovulate on your open side for some "unknown" reason... what good is his guarantee? You would have one open tube and his guarantee is no good. So, Dr. B's reduced 2nd TR is essentially the same as a refund - it would be like getting that money back and choosing to use it for a second surgery open the tube no matter how many or which one was open or blocked. Better guarantee from that perspective. I am having a hard time getting my finger tips to get out in writing what my brain is logically laying out. "Many don't walk out with enough..." meant go to local Dr. First.... find out tubes are blocked... get refund... and it is immediately onto IVF, adoption or what have you. What does his cost to begin with.... more than Dr. B? Are you spending money on an "insurance policy." Local Dr. has higher charges... less experience... how much out of pocket even if you get the refund... that is what I attempting to get at. What does he charge? Take that less the refund. Is the difference more or less than the first surgery with Dr. B? I will try again if I still am confusing you. I am a numbers girl... life is easier for me when I can lay out the numbers! From everything I have seen, Dr. Berger ROCKS..... professionally, emotionally, his dedication to his field and patients, his commitment to women. My husband asked me about this early on... told him I would get on a plane with a second's notice and lay on that man's table without a doubt or concern. I could throw my numbers game out the door and be willing to pay more than the highest Doctor charges... because what he offers amazes me. But... I feel he is the best... and funny thing is... he wins at the numbers game, too. Chrissy
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 09, 2007 09:53 PM: There is a whole section on this web site with stats. Click the PREGNANCY STATS link at the bottom. If that doesn't answer your questions... contact a nurse via email... they are great with prompt responses and getting you anything and everything you need. Have the patience of saints.... they must answer the same questions from all of nervous nellies 20 times each day... and never do they seem exhausted for having done it. Ectopic preggos are at an elevated level compared to women who have never had a ligation reversed. Reversal means a surgical site.. means the possibility of scar tissue... means altered lengths... just messes with the "natural" flow of things a little more. I believe some of the higher miscarriage rates are due to women testing SO EARLY and knowing they were preggo... I had a friend that was testing early like that... had she not, she wouldn't have known she was preggo and m/c'ed... and would have just thought her cycle was late. Other factors include the ages of some of the women.... lots of them on the over 40 thread (GO GIRLS!!!!) and age plays a role naturally... then add the risks because of being reversal patients. It all adds up. AND... talk to enough women... you would find a lot of them have miscarriages - we just don't know it because they aren't all concentrated on a message board like this... all women trying to conceive. My mom had two unexplained m/c before my older sister... than 4 normal preggos without a hiccup. My best friend wasn't trying... found out she was preggo, shocked... adjusted... then m/c'd. I could go on and on in my own personal life of a long list of m/c that had nothing to do with TR. Personally, your doc's "guarantee" means little to someone in my situation. I know I am flirting with the 2% Dr. Berger may not be able to put back together... my doc butchered me inside. But all my research has lead me to him. I know there is nobody else out there that will give me as much as a chance as he will. I have a one shot opportunity at the possibility of making a baby naturally... Dr. Berger is it. Trust your heart... ask every question to every doctor you are considering... leave no room for doubt or regret... in the end, it is you that matters. What is right for those who have come to Dr. Berger, wasn't for all those who chose not to. Chrissy
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 09, 2007 10:09 PM: Hoping for a May 2007 reversal. Hoping because, as stated, not sure it is possible. Remember I am a numbers girl... stats can always be presented in such a way to skew them to any one side's favor. You have to come up with your own metrics and determine what is important to you personally... and judge them all based on that. Remember, someone who has done 100 surgeries with PRIME candidates could have higher "success" rates than someone like Dr. Berger who does everything possible to help even those on the verge of "disastrous" - his "success" rates may be lower because he has a broader limit to what he takes in as a candidate. And none of us on that marginal candidacy would ever fault him for us never having a baby... too bad we didn't know to do research before we let some go in and do as they pleased to our bodies. I second Chuck's girl's comments on the 24/7. I have sent msgs on Saturday.. just cuz I had the time... wasn't expecting a response from anyone till Monday... and there was Dr. Berger and a nurse in separate responses! Chrissy
Posted by PINE (Member # 10086) on March 09, 2007 10:10 PM: I also did alot of research before choosing Dr. Berger and have been addicted to these boards since and at one point got a little scared of some bad news on them but my husband asked me if after my TR if I get pregnant how much time would I spend on the threads looking for support? most likely not much we girls seem to come here for support when we need it so to alot of people it may appear the bad out ways the good but I agree with erics girl the numbers speak for themselves good luck in your choice but I would never consider any where but CHAPEL HILL for me!!
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 09, 2007 10:28 PM: AWESOME point Pine! I missed that one in my "essay" on skewing stats... we all are here because we have a common objective... one that comes with many questions, concerns and problems. We don't need much help when things are going right... and sometimes forget to drop in and let the world know... perhaps, here anyway, out of fear of depressing those struggling when we are not. Sunshine Lady, it isn't an easy decision. Blocked tubes aren't the only thing that prevent the ultimate outcome - a baby. Hormones, sperm, stress, etc... even with perfectly open tubes of optimal length... there are those who never get a baby... much less even conceive. I understand the money back can be used towards further attempts of another nature. I consider my guarantee Dr. Berger. In my opinion, HE IS THE BEST available (people come from other countries to have him do their surgeries!!!) If he can't give me a fighting chance, then I know it can't be done. Any other doc I checked into... I felt it was short-comings on their end that limited the options available to me. I will say it again, follow your heart. You have to be satisfied by your decision. On this board, however, you will not find anyone who will support anyone else but Dr. Berger. They have done their research and landed here. See how many women like us your local doc has backing him up.... maybe that is one of your metrics to consider. Chrissy
Posted by Springpatch (Member # 10614) on March 09, 2007 10:42 PM: I have to say something here: During my research for the right TR doctor I noticed that Dr. Berger's web site does not criticize other doctors or their techniques. I've been on other sites that say negative things about Dr. Berger's clinic in round about ways. Because he's the BEST a lot of people try to offer too good to be true deals as they cannot beat his education, number of actual surgeries performed, and years of experience. The other thing to remember when it comes to ectopic/mc. A lot of the women who come to Dr. Berger have had Tubal ligation procedures that have torn their reproductive organs to pieces and Dr. Berger lets you know what you chances of getting pregnant are before he operates. Many of us are willing to take that chance even if the numbers are as low as 40 and 50%. Every web site will tell you that with TL and TR there is a chance of having Ectopic pregnancy and Dr. Berger tells you how to handle a positive pregnancy test to make sure you are safe until you get past the point of concern. Also, women who are 35 and up have a high rate of miscarriage whether you have gone through a TR or not. I guess it comes down to the fact that he's done over 5000 surgeries and practice makes perfect.
Posted by Ericka Pamplin (Member # 1953) on March 09, 2007 11:01 PM: We would all like a guarantee that what we want in life will happen just as we wish. Unfortunately that's not how life works in any situation. Dr. Berger does not offer a money back guarantee.If a second surgery is necessary, the fee is reduced. There are many women who suffer from the same outcomes who have never had a tubal ligation at all. It takes long periods of time for some women to conceive who have never caused any damage to their tubes. Although your tubes will be open when you leave Chapel Hill, no one can predict your healing process. Best wishes with your decision. Ericka
Posted by sparks8366 (Member # 10195) on March 10, 2007 07:04 AM: I have been lurking on this site and researching TR dr's for some time. I have seen that other dr's say they have high success rates but only dr berger shows actual numbers and statistics to back up what he says and shows the pregnancies every week on another forum. On other doctors message boards I don't see as many pregnant women as on this board and I am suspicious of how they know what their success really is. Why don't they tell how many pregnancies there are every week? After more than 1 year of research I am convinced that Dr Berger is the best TR surgeon and one you can trust to tell the real truth, not make up some numbers just to sound good. When I have the money I am going to Dr. Berger.
Posted by sarah holbrook (Member # 8303) on March 10, 2007 07:28 AM: Ladies thought i would chime in here i looked for a month at TR docs and when i came across Dr B, my search was over... He really is the best, as other ladies said no guarantees in life let alone TTC, Only last month my Dh and i called in to CH and they welcomed us with open arms Dr B, was so pleased to see us we have taken some pics of him with our baby girl, i have never had that kind of relationship with any doc before, they really care before and after and beyond..... here are my stats. TL 1993 TR 2005 june 23, BFP nov 05 Baby Hannah Rose born 7th aug, 06. 6 pounds 9 ounces. lol Sarah
Posted by jehningsmom (Member # 10769) on March 10, 2007 07:36 AM: Hi Sunshine Lady..you caused quite a discussion here. Of course those of us who have gone to Dr. Berger are very partial to him and you have to make your own decision. I hope you came to this board because you value other peoples opinion and want to do what is best for you (no matter the money figure). Dr. Berger does guarantee that if your tubes are repairable he will do his job. Your tubes will be open when your surgery is done if they are repairable. He cannot predict that when you heal scar tissue will not block them. If it does, he guarantees he will go back in and reopen them for a discounted price. We are not talking about a week later... I've been almost 2 years with no BFP and I know if I find out my tubes are blocked I can go back to see Dr. Berger even now. Is that the guarantee for your money back locally. Be sure to read the fine print...does he guarantee that when you leave his surgery room at least one will be open and he is not responsible once you leave? I think that is what everyone is trying to get at. How far does this guarantee go.... years from now???? Something certainly to consider. I spent less than $7,000.00 with Dr. Berger and that counted my hotel and air fair. wishing you the best in your search... whatever you choose we are praying for you like the rest for BFP soon after. God Bless!!! Louise
Posted by Chris73 (Member # 1313) on March 10, 2007 10:29 AM: I don't really jump in on these but did want to say I understand where you are coming from. We all would like a guarantee.. Life doesn't really have too many.. In the end you need to go with what feels better for you. I researched allot of Doctors during my Search for the best 1.. We chose Dr Berger because of his Reputation and I don't regret it at all.. I do however know some Ladies that do.. They ended up with very short or no Tubes at all.. I believe that is a risk you take with any Doctor and to be safe you could choose the little Procedure prior to the Surgery that would give you a better insight on what you may end up with.. I had my TR in Sept 2002. I came out with great Lengths.. Conceived in December that Year but lost the Baby at 8 wks in Feb Yes you read allot of miscarriages on this Board but look at how many People are here.. I joined a m/c Group and just in our Group we had over 50 Ladies that had a m/c the same month as me.. I was the ONLY TR Patient.. M/C's are very common and most of the time a Woman not obsessed with POAS will never know she was pg. Unfortunately once you have a TR you become obsessed with trying to get pg and we test soo early (I know I was)... TR's have no higher or lower rate in normal m/c's then before. I think the E/P' Rate goes up a bit because you just had Surgery on your Tubes. I had 2 m/c's before ever having any children.. Anyway's I got pg again in June 2003 and my TR Miracle just turned 3 this past Month.. I also found out last Month that we are expecting TR Baby #2 in October.. Again in the End you have to make your own choice and be it Dr Berger or the Doctor you are referring to none can make it for you.. I am wishing you the Best of Luck on your Journey. ~Chris~
Posted by jami (Member # 9521) on March 10, 2007 10:40 AM: i'll just say that my ob/gyn was going to do my surgery until i found dr berger. he was going to charge me $20,000. after finding dr berger i knew he was the one i wanted to do my tr. after it was done, my ob/gyn told me that there was no way i would have gotten such good results if he had preformed the surgery. that said, i love dr berger and i owe him so much. thank you is not enough! jami tr 5-19-06 bfp 6-21-06 tr baby girl born 2-21-07 (9 months after tr!)
Posted by empty nested (Member # 7303) on March 10, 2007 10:51 AM: I just wanted to pipe in here and mention that I am also a member of another message board (fertility software - not FF) and a regular on a thread of "Women TTC after a Tubal Reversal". You want to see some true numbers? On this thread there are about 12 regulars on it. Most went to a Dr. in Mexico, and another 2 went to a Dr. in the south eastern states (Tn and FL?? can't remember where) I am the only one that went to Dr. B. For the majority of us, we have had our TR's at least 2 years ago and our ages range from 26 - 37. So far, of the 12 of us, only 4 women have achieved pregnancy. Of those 4 women, there has been 8 pregnancies to date (3 were mine), and there has only been 1 live birth so far (mine). When new members visit our thread they all notice that I am the only one who has been successful and right away they want to know who did my surgery. The other regulars on the thread also now say that they wish that they had either known about Dr. Berger or that they had chose him when making their decision. I am 36 years old. I had my TR on 4-8-05. I was pregnant by 5-23-05 and delivered a healthy baby boy on 1-27-06. I was pregnant again within 4 months but miscarried at 7-8 weeks. I got another BFP on 2-1-07 and am almost 9 weeks pregnant with this baby. All is well so far. All this, 3 pregnancies and it's been less than 2 years since my TR surgery with Dr. Berger!! You want numbers, there are some numbers. Obviously not EVERYONE will be as successful. But that is life, it's not perfect. God makes no guarantees, so we cannot expect Dr. Berger to make something he has no control over. I'm sure that if he could, he would. But it is YOUR body and YOUR body's healing process is what is going to determine whether or not your tubes block or not. Some people scar a lot, some don't. Dr. Berger treats each one of his patients as an individual and we all received his very best attention before, during and after our surgeries. My husband and I lurked on this board, read the web site about 50 times over, ordered the DVD, asked questions when we had them, and compared doctors. Dr. Berger was BY FAR the best and we would not have even batted an eye and payed double what he charges for his services. He IS THE BEST! We wanted another child (not a refund if it didn't work) and would go to great lengths to have another one. Ditto to what the previous posted said. All the OB's and Dr.s I have seen are totally blown away by Dr. B's DVD (I loaned it to them) and they said "You definitely went to a man who has this down to an art." They are all completely impressed. Sheila EDD with TR baby #2 10-15-07
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 10, 2007 10:58 AM: I am one of those who will end up with short tubes... I have short tubes for him to start with. I will not regret the outcome of my visit with Dr. Berger. I will regret the uninformed decision I made 7 yrs ago when my TL was done. And even when I think that through (and as my DH tries to console me as such)it appeared to be the "right" decision given what life was throwing at me. Right decision... wrong procedure... wrong doctor.... I don't know... Everyone here has done a good job getting me over those humps. WHAT IS... IS! We travel down a path... some stops unknown why till much later in life. Go for NO REGRETS. What that means is different for all of us. Pregnancy rates for IVF are not any better... and are still subject to age, hormones, genetic make-up, etc... just as TR preggos are...and you pay for EACH cycle at a greater cost than one TR surgery. Adoption... not a solid guarantee... here those go "bad," too. And someone a alluded to it already... not all women can have children anyway. That brings us back to: LIFE HAS NO GUARANTEES! We are all asking for a second chance at it... MOST have had some, decided to be "done" and then changed our minds for one reason or another ( WOMEN!!!! ) Your local doc will give you money back... but you aren't getting a baby out of it! The guarantee you should be looking for is the best surgical procedure.... After all... that makes or breaks a good part of the "Success" of the TR... after that it is up to OUR BODIES... for that, there is no guarantee... some scar more, some are past baby making days, some aren't compatible with our DH's genetics, etc.. You don't get your money back for any of that. And like many have said... READ THE SMALL PRINT... there has to be many "catches" to it. We all want the same thing. "There are many ways to skin a cat." What works for one, may not work for the next. Said it before.... hope you find your way to Dr. Berger. If not, I wish only the best for you and your family... we all are in this journey together. Chrissy
Posted by LOVE & LUCK (Member # 9504) on March 10, 2007 12:00 PM: Alright ladies here I go... I am 28, I live in California. I have one of the best OBGYN's in Cali {my opinion}. He tied my tubes and would have untied them also. I do not consider my doctor, my doctor. I consider him my friend. He would have gladly untied my tubes, for $12,000. I considered it, before doing research. When I found Dr. Berger it was EASY to decide to go with him. I do not feel the need to talk him up. READ. He is a genius at what he does. There is no way to get any guarantee's in life. I'm not going to argue about your doctor's guarantee, I'm just saying a little fishy. I am about to have my baby boy in 3 weeks. I got pregnant 3 months after TR. This is my first son. I have had 4 C-sections and on my way to my 5th planned. My tubes were short but they worked. I WOULD NEVER CONSIDER GOING ANYWHERE ELSE. That is my guarantee.
Posted by Eric'sGirl (Member # 10652) on March 10, 2007 12:59 PM: Luck and Love... how short were your tubes... give this GUARANTEED short-tuber (if I am able to connect them) I little bit of your story! Chrissy
Posted by pslmommie (Member # 10687) on March 10, 2007 03:42 PM: Ladies.. maybe I should chime in too. I just had my TR performed just by Dr Berger. I too would suggest him to anyone who every asked. The staff was great, the DR was Fab, and the ladies I met on my journey this week will be friends for lifetime bc we all have a bond now. Let me ask you this. How many Dr's would go in for one type of surgery and repair two w/o charging a penny more? What am I talking about. well I went in to get my TR and Dr. Berger found that I had torn my abdominal wall and had a hernia protruding from it.. What did this great man do repaired it on the spot. I woke up to I have great news... you have 7.0 cm tube length on your left and 7.5 cm tubes length on your right and oh by the way I repaired your hernia while I was in there. I was so surprised. I did not even know I had it. So tell me again where you would get something this great? ONLY CHAPEL HILL TR CENTER AND Dr. Berger AND HIS STAFF. Oh course I am very sour today and living on the Pain Killers but that is to be expected after all I went through. The other ladies that had it done yesterday feel wonderful... here's to hoping for a great outcome
Posted by Crecia (Member # 6023) on March 10, 2007 04:46 PM: Hello ladies I'm new to the board but just wanted to say why I picked Dr. Berger. I have not had mt TR yet but I am scheduled for April 10th next month. I chose Dr. Berger not looking for a guarantee just looking for a doctor with great credentials in performing TR. Every site that I would look up Dr. Berger name was on the site or I was lead back to Dr. Berger in some way. I feel he is the best and have not even met him yet. His web-site just give so much information. I find myself looking at this web-site everyday as if it was my e-mail. I can't wait to meet this man I am so excited. I just feel that when making my choice to perform a surgery on my body I want someone who specialize in just that surgery, not a doctor who can do that plus more. I think I have made the right choice. Also you women on this message board sure make a person feel so warm and welcomed. Thank You all.
Posted by LOVE & LUCK (Member # 9504) on March 10, 2007 06:37 PM: ERIC'S GIRL: I had 3cm and 3.5. Not long by any means, but enough. Lots of women have gotten pregnant with less. Alot haven't with more. It takes alot of different things to make it happen but the first step is Dr. Berger.
